Marvel X-Men Gold piraté par un islamiste

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Marvel X-Men Gold piraté par un islamiste

Messagepar Greenheart » Ven 14 Avr 2017 17:42

Le dessinateur de Marvel X-Men gold a avoué avoir glissé un peu partout des messages de haines anti-chrétiens, anti-juifs et pro-islamiste dans les premiers épisodes de la bande-dessinée. ... old-marvel

Illustrator Ardian Syaf has apologized on Facebook for including two panels he drew in X-Men Gold #1 that made references to a Koranic verse sometimes interpreted as having anti-Christian and anti-Jewish meanings, and a controversy surrounding it in Indonesia.

In the details of a panel, Syaf, an Indonesian, Muslim artist, had included a reference to a verse in the Quran that is linked to a blasphemy investigation of the governor of Indonesia’s capital. The verse referenced has been used by some to argue that Christians and Jews cannot be trusted. Last year, Basuki Tjahaja Purnama, who is Jakarta’s first Christian governor, spoke against the verse in a manner viewed by some as disrespectful to Islam.

Marvel a été racheté par Disney, Disney est la propriété de richissimes saoudiens dont les engagements politiques, religieux ou dans le commerce des armes ne sont pas ordinairement détaillés par nos médias.
Le rédacteur en chef ne s'est curieusement pas inquiété de lire dans sa bande dessinée des numéros étranges, qui correspondaient aux soutrates haineuses, alors que Marvel n'est pas avare de références mythologiques ou bibliques.
Le gouverneur de la capitale indonésienne a cependant lancé une enquête pour blasphème.
En France, cela entraînerait logiquement plainte et enquête pour incitation à la haine, mais les religions bénéficient de passe-droits énormes, tout comme un grand nombre de sombres crapules.

*** ... ssage.html

Les messages ont été bien reçus en Indonésie, et du coup le scandale a éclaté.

vulture a écrit:It’s been a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad few weeks for Marvel Comics. March sales figures have shown the company in a dangerous sales slump, losing out to eternal rival DC in terms of units sold and only coming out on top in terms of money earned, due to the fact that its comics are more expensive. There has also been growing anger online over the upcoming culmination of a story in which Captain America is depicted as the leader of a Nazi-affiliated group.

Matters got worse two weekends ago with a total PR disaster in which the publisher’s vice-president for sales and marketing, David Gabriel, told an interviewer at industry-analysis site ICv2 that he’d heard retailers saying the slump was due to recent attempts to make their characters more “diverse” — e.g., putting in more women and people of color. The comments were misleadingly interpreted in the geek press as meaning Marvel was giving up on such diversity initiatives, right when editor-in-chief Axel Alonso was touting those initiatives in a big Fortune profile. Gabriel clarified his statement, and it seemed the storm might have been passing.

Then came the Koran reference.

On Wednesday, the venerable company released one of its highest-profile comics in recent months, X-Men Gold No. 1. Gold is the flagship series in Marvel’s so-called ResurrXion project, which seeks to make the X-Men great again by thrusting them into the spotlight with new creative talent and a big marketing push. This first issue, written by Arrow co-creator and longtime comics scribe Marc Guggenheim, sees the titular team relocated to the heart of New York City and attempting to regain a luster of optimistic heroism in a dark and confusing world. Penciled by Indonesian artist Ardian Syaf, it was thrilling and cheery, filled with hope and excitement.

Trouble was, it also happened to be filled with coded messages commenting on a vicious political conflict in Indonesia. The most notable message appears on the chest of Russian X-Man Colossus — while playing a game of softball with his teammates, we see the characters “QS 5:51” emblazoned on his jersey. One can forgive editors Chris Robinson, Daniel Ketchum, and Mark Paniccia for assuming those were just random letters and numbers drawn by a man from a country where baseball uniforms aren’t widespread. But no, they stood for Qur’an Sura 5:51 — a verse from the Islamic holy book...


Vulture a écrit:(MAJ) April 12: Marvel has fired Syaf. The publisher said the next two issues of X-Men Gold will run with the art he already drew, due to the fact that they had already been sent off for printing, but that the remainder of his contracted work on the series has been canceled. Syaf took to Facebook again to apologize and lament his situation. Whatever goodwill that might have earned him disappeared when he spoke to an Indonesian news outlet and said, according to a translation obtained by comics writer Ivan Brandon, “Marvel belongs to Disney, right? So the second I offended the Jews, of course there’s no leniency.” As Brandon put it on a Facebook post, “if anyone with a profile of any kind hires this dude in the next 5 years i’ll eat my hat.”
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Re: Marvel X-Men Gold piraté par un islamiste

Messagepar Greenheart » Sam 15 Avr 2017 20:37

Commentaire intéressant de l'article :

Okay, I appreciate your patience here.

Do artists sneak messages into art? Yes. I agree.
Does the nature of the message result in varying degrees of reprimand? Yes. I never definitively stated that every act of hiding something in art would get an artist fired, but that YES, artists have definitely been removed from an editor’s rolodex because of subversive behavior like that.

I’m not trying to invalidate the part that it was what Syaf put into his hidden message that got him fired. The only part I’ve been taking issue with is Marty’s implication that Syaf was fired because of what he believes, which is a separate issue from hiding his beliefs in the art, and that Marvel are somehow hypocrites because they’re taking action against him whereas they’re not taking action against other creators. For Marvel to be hypocrites, other creators would have to be doing equivalent things but not getting equivalent punishment.

Marty is basically stating that Syaf would’ve been fired even if he hadn’t hidden his message in the art. But there’s no proof Marvel cared what the guy believes on his own time. Marvel only cared when he used their publication as a platform for his message, undermining the company, his editors, and his fellow collaborators. So him putting the messages into the comic is what got him into trouble. Not the message itself, but because he used the background art in X-Men to deliver it. If he was only delivering his message through Facebook or Twitter or whatever, Marvel (if it would even have been brought to their attention) would likely say "if it doesn’t affect the art he turns in, we don’t care."

Fired because of your views
Fired because you hid your views in artwork-for-hire

are two separate things. Right? Like, firing an employee because they went to play paintball on their own time would be different than firing an employee because they had a paintball game in the office. It’s not the playing paintball that was the problem, it’s that they did it in the office.

Would you agree that if Syaf had not put those messages in the art, he would not have been fired? I can’t see any reason why Marvel would fire him if he hadn’t done it. So if he hadn’t hidden the messages, and they kept him on the book, he’d still have his personal views, right? Like, his belief in these things is not dependent on him hiding them in comics. Ergo, it’s not his beliefs alone that got him fired, but because he hid them in the book.

Marvel didn’t single him out, as far as I know. There isn’t a rash of artists getting away with hiding hate speech or racist images in Marvel’s comics, is there? If there is, has Marvel been made aware and just brushed it off? I just don’t see how they’re being hypocrites in this situation. They’re not being intolerant of Syaf’s religious or political views, they just won’t tolerate him sneaking them into backgrounds of art they’re paying him for. The Polygon article you keep linking to is all about how hiding fairly innocent things won’t get you blackballed, but worse things could. It doesn’t mention that when Al Milgrom hid that insult aimed at Bob Harras in Spider-Man, he got fired from his staff position at Marvel after it was discovered. I know this first hand because I hired him to work on comics after it happened. People insulted other comics people all the time, but their insults didn’t get them fired because they didn’t sneak them into any art.

I’ve worked in comics for 20 years, 10 of those working for Disney as a comics editor. We hired people from all over. Plenty of the freelancers we hired also wrote or drew porn comics for other publishers. But that never deterred us from hiring them. We didn’t care, if they were good artists that’s all that mattered. They could still draw porn while working for us. But if any had turned in pages where they tried to sneak sexual images passed us, yeah, we wouldn’t have hired them again. The point is, it’s not that they liked drawing porn that would’ve gotten them fired, it’s that they would’ve been fired for drawing it into the kids comic we hired them for.

So my point is, it’s not that Syaf has these beliefs that got him fired, it’s that he snuck those beliefs into the art, and it’s only hypocritical if Marvel selectively lets other artists sneak in equivalent messages that can be interpreted as hate speech and doesn’t take action against them.

TL; DR — Marty’s saying Marvel fired Syaf because of his personal views and that makes Marvel hypocrites.
I’m saying that’s not accurate, and that Marvel fired him because he hid those views in the art, and it’s not hypocritical, because Marvel only cares that it was in the art. If his message was not snuck into the art without their approval, Marvel wouldn’t care about his personal views.

Having his views didn’t get him in trouble. Sneaking them into the art is what did.
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